GAMESWORKSHOP = GREEDY MONEY GRABBERS!

[bluelizard1976]

I have to agree that Games Workshop has a very expensive product line and I tend not to buy direct from them because of that fact!!

But I do think there are some factors that people should take in to account before completely disregarding them as just mercenary money grabbers!

How many of you have figures in your army that are 10,15 or even 20 years old? Units that you haven't been replaced because there was no point, they where still figures that did the job required!

How many of you have used cheaper alternatives for vehicles or troops just because you could find a cheaper line of miniatures that look enough alike to be OK?

Then there are those people who buy from independent stockists to build their armies Games Workshop only get the trade value for these items and that is only if the independent doesn't go out business or even it pays its bills on time! All these are just few of the ways that Workshop lose out on income to the older gamers on it's books.

Those are just a few small points about Games Workshop customers that like to save a bit of cash and I'm definitely included in those points and probably a few more as I like to scratch build my own vehicles!

The BIG problem games workshop faces, the same as any other company, is securing it's future. So that means getting new people into the Hobby and this is where things get a bit complicated for them on a whole. I know that most people my age have been into their local store at the weekend or during school holidays and thought "OMG It's like a crèche!!!". This means that games workshop need the extra staff to keep an eye on the store, run the tills and run games to get people interested. This is important because with out the stores Workshop would struggle, they would have no entry point for new interest! and how many games systems can you remember that where extremely popular way back when but just waned over the years because the company couldn't get new people into their product . that list is particularly looooong.

So cut them a bit of slack. They are expensive yes and I do think the prices could be a bit lower (in my opinion). But they are also trying to stay afloat in a very fickle market, when over the years other companies have risen and fallen on our high streets, Games Workshop has stood firm and I for one am very glad about this as I love the hobby the background and the people I have met through it!!

So Just think next time you have a bit of moan about them, there is a whole different story than them just trying to get your money maybe they love the hobby just as much as you and still want to see it around in another 25years!

Keep Well

[IBBoard]

That's an optimistic way of looking at it I mentioned earlier the prices that GW sell to their staff at (I think), and I wouldn't be expecting them to make too much of a loss at that, if any.

As for independent stockists, I'd have expected them to pay up front. There's too much risk involved in giving people stock that they pay for once they've sold, surely? Or is that just me not having done any business management courses because normal management at University was terrible?

I do think staff and shops are a big expense, though. They do help get people in to the hobby, but I'm 23 and my first sight of Games Workshop was actually Hero Quest in a Toymaster store Having seen the logo on the box I then saw the logo on a shop in town and it all went from there. I don't think I would have gone in without having seen Hero Quest first, though.

[bluelizard1976]

As far as I'm aware Workshop staff get there figures at metal weight £ value. That would suggest that to me that they are sold items minus all production costs eg. design, staffing and manufacturing! I would guess that this is due to the fact that they pay them so little, call it a non taxable bonus. As they have to buy the product, neither workshop or their staff, are subject to being taxed on its rrp.

I may be wrong, you would have to ask some one who works there. I had some mates working there but that was a few years back.

Not so much giving stockist stock until they sell but more like monthly payment. Many companies across industry despatch items to shops and then invoice them at end of the month or when ever it is. Like paying your utility bills quarterly. In short, credit is a device that a lot of wholesalers use to easier sell to stockists who don't always have the money to pay up front, alot of these stockists would be small businesses with a small turn over. Hence the fact they often sell Workshop figures at discount, they cut their profit margin in a hopes that the lower price will attract more customers and help them sell more but for less profit. This often works.

I would also like to point out that Workshop for quite a long time now have been heading towards being a GAME company not a producer of figures. This means that units will be priced more and more to their use in the game rather than the actual content of the sprue!

Just like when people, especially Magic the Gathering players, paying extortionate amounts for single cards just to make their decks more effective.

You will pay more for these effective units, it makes sense.

Doesn't mean it's fair.

I hope this doesn't come across as a lecture as it's not! Just my opinion!
I try to keep the cost of my armies by cutting corners and ad libbing units where necessary.
I do agree that they are expensive but I can see why, and believe that as hobbyists we can shrug off the cost with a little ingenuity.

[IBBoard]

Price = points has become a more apparent pricing strategy in recent years. There's no other way to explain some of the increases! It's definitely true that with a little ingenuity and work (like my grots from plastic goblins) you can reduce the expense, though.

Just be careful if you try to battle in-store as they tend not to like other brand miniatures in there in case other customers see them and like them. It's quite difficult for the staff to explain that it's not one of their models and that you have to do somewhere else where the models might be cheaper to purchase it

[Gray-Pilgrim]

I've played since i was a kid, must be over 10 years now, and have to say i love the hobby and everything about it, but gone are the days of army building and picking out your favourite units. theres a common trend ( in fantasy ) at the moment of increasing the special units you can have, and then hiking up the price. that said it would seem that the accountants finally got to GW in the end to...

its sad to see games workshop go down like this, and going down it is. its fans dont want to see it go under and im trying to keep up with the prices, and no matter what u say about the cost of running, at the end of the day us dedicated fans on the shop floor ( as it where) are paying for GW's global ambitions.

Well a few years ago they traded in there warhammer books and paints for flash suits and american dreams, and i have to say that i find it quite hilerious to watch there share prices plumet. and the company directors scramble to sell the brand in america. i hope they fail and somebody with less short-sightedness buys them out at a bargain price in a few year, and tries to salvage whatever survives this capatalist temptation.

weak fools...

[IBBoard]

I'm not sure how much of an improvement a buy out would be. In the current self-fulfilling economic climate* it's not surprising that hobbies aren't getting as much money spent on them as they used to. Unfortunately, Games Workshop's strategy of charging more and more isn't the way to encourage people with very little spare money to spend it.

How are the shares doing at the moment? I used to check them every so often about eight or so years ago (I think) but I've never been able to find them in the lists that The Times print.



* Media says "things aren't looking good", so people spend less on luxuries, so media say "things are looking worse", so people spend even less and start to worry, so media say "housing prices are decreasing" (ignoring the fact that they got to ridiculous prices anyway), so people who had the stupid idea that the market would go up for ever and they could buy for profit start to panic more, so the media say "it's looking like the crash in the 1990s", so everyone panics even more and pushes us towards something like the crash in the 1990s faster than they would if the media hadn't suggested it.

[Wolfblade]

Pricing drove me out of the hobby years ago (although I never played, I only painted and read the books). I've only just started painting again, and consider most of the pricing to be disgusting.

Luckily, because I aim to vastly improve my painting skills (I was always very tidy, just no shading and highlighting, etc), I'm stripping and re-painting all my old models.

[IBBoard]

Even worse, prices are going up again. On the 25th August I got the following email:

PRICING UPDATE

As everyone knows costs are going up all over the world, and just like everyone else we are seeing increases in the price of oil, metal, printed materials and transport. Up until now we've absorbed these increases, but the recent and dramatic doubling in the price of tin is simply something we are unable to ignore and therefore some of our prices will be going up too.

As from 29th September 2008 we will therefore be increasing the price of all metal models as well as a selection of other items including most of our books and some accessories including paint.

The good news is that we do not intend to raise the price of our plastic kits at this time which means Games Workshop's plastic range remains excellent value for money for all hobbyists. This has also encouraged us to accelerate our plans for expanding our plastic kit range even more quickly so keep a look out for new projects in the future.

I love the logic of "the prices of tin have doubled, therefore we're also going to increase the prices of books"! I guess if it's anything like the White Dwarf magazine then it's actually printed in Poland and shipped back, but by printing in Poland they'll have been getting much cheaper printing then they could have done in the UK/

Also, isn't plastic an oil derivative? And hasn't the price of oil gone crazy recently, leading to the high petrol prices? So how come the plastics aren't any more expensive?

Oh well, at least the plastics are far better quality than they once were

[t1983]

Do you know how much the metal models are going up by?
It would be great if GW had a sale like they used to or even the vouchers that used to come in white dwarf for store openings. It would be really nice to get 25% off something.
They even did vouchers to be used in store on the golden demon weekend. They had massive 50% off vouchers when they did that.
Being recently married my budget has been cut on the amount i spend on GW products (thanks to the wife) so a sale would be greatly appreciated!! I know that you can get cheaper models online but theres still nothing quite like a store visit.

[IBBoard]

I've never seen the 50% off vouchers, but I do remember the "25% off boxed games" and "10% off everything else" vouchers they did for store openings. They also used to do post-Christmas sales (somewhere around February) so as a teenager it was always a struggle to hold on to my Christmas money until then!

So much for any of that now. I severely doubt they'll bring it back and I've probably not seen a sale for the past five years at least.

As for how much they're going up by, I don't think the email mentioned (which did seem rather strange at the time). The normal thing is to bump blister packs by at least £1 each (which is why £3 champion models and £4 heroes are now up at ~£6 or £7 each)

Picking something up in a store and walking off with it is nice, but given the ridiculous pricing then any purchase I may make (which will be somewhat minimal with a wife, child and mortgage to support!) are still either through online stores (because you get the discount and you give a percentage to someone else as well) or alternate brands of paint/tools/etc from other shops.

[t1983]

I do get hobby tools from elsewhere because you tend to get them much cheaper and with something like files, you can get a much cheaper set and get different types of files included rather then the 3 (I think) you get at GW.
I have noticed in my local Hobbycraft (which carry a small amount of GW products at the same price as GW), they occasional reduce the prices of certain minitures with a nice big red 'reduced to clear' sticker on the front. Only problem is that the only ones they tend to reduce are 'nids. I guess they arent a popular army choice so thats why they are on sale.

[IBBoard]

There's a model shop in Hereford (which now has an official GW now that I've moved away!) that used to stock a good range of GW models and paints. He didn't stock a single GW tool, though. Not that it bothered me as his range of non-GW tools were better (more variety) and cheaper.

I did mention it to him when I picked up a set of files or drill bits or something and he said it was purposefully because the other brands are basically the same and so much cheaper! You can't really avoid selling the paints, as no other scheme matches quite right and the names can't be the same (which is what most people go off) but "a pair of clippers" is a pair of clippers, whichever you buy.

[IBBoard]

The latest issue of White Dwarf arrived recently and they've got a small note (about 1/6th of a page, crammed right at the very end of the new releases section) that's basically identical to the newsletter email they sent. So, still no detail of how much the price rises are, although I guess staffers in stores may know.

One thought I just had is to keep an eye on your local model shops. I don't know if they will, but some stores may continue to sell at old prices until their "old price" stock runs out. It'll mean they won't make as much money as they could do, but it would mean people might buy from them where they wouldn't otherwise, so it might work for some of them as a business strategy (unless GW sends out an ultimatum to raise prices or be cut off!)

[grimman40k]

prices seem to be going down now but slowly hopfully land raiders and dreadnoughts wont cost so much soon =D

[IBBoard]

Down? I just got the latest magazine and saw five Chaos Chosen for £18 - that's approaching £4 each, where as a Champion used to be £3! Along with the recent announcement that prices would be rising because of the rising price of metal (but no detail of how much by), I've not noticed a drop.

I guess the only price drop might be that more tanks are now being done in plastic instead of plastic with metal. The last I saw GW just ended up releasing "plastic only" tanks at the same prices as the "plastic and metal" tanks that they replaced, though.