Orc and Goblin changes

[IBBoard]

Just been reading WhiteDwarf and some of the changes GW made. Interesting ideas.

Orcs now seem to have matching stats to Orks, so they're all a bit tougher (which is only fitting).

Apparently Squig Hoppers have been split off from the main herds. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that the way 4th/5th ed had it anyway? Okay, so I think they were separate models rather than a small skirmish unit, but I'm glad they're separating the hoppers out. It's just how it should be!

Pump Wagons now get two to a slot! I've not played 6th/7th Ed, but Pump Wagons are my kind of Orcy war machine, so that can only be a good thing

Netters are simpler now, but still with the typical goblin possibility of it backfiring! Animosity should be a lot easier to handle as well with what seems like a single roll and 1 and 6 being charge/squable.

The only things I'm not sure of are the new look goblins. The Night Goblins aren't so terrible, but the Forest Goblins have gone for a much more Pygmy look, which doesn't look quite so goblinoid. On the plus side the spiders look a little nastier now

Also, the new 'generic' troll is a good idea (and fairly obviously based on the LotR one) but I'm not so sure on the model itself. It does just look a little too much like a LotR troll, and its head gets a little lost in the general wrinkles of the shoulders.

So, what do others think of the new Orcs and Goblins? I'd almost certainly play them if I collected Warhammer....and if I actually got round to playing much!

[andygorn]

IMHO:
The new Skarsnik and Gobbla look very nice (prefer the new Gobbla, but like the old Skarsnik's 'Power Halberd'/Prodder.etc better).

The Goblins now look a load more nasty, vicious and evil (but I think that this is mainly due to the influence of the LOTR miniatures)...the last ones merely looked like 'little green men' with spears!

I still prefer the River + Stone Trolls instead of the one from the boxed set.

The idea behind the new sets of Warlord + Battle Standard Bearer is a good one, but the Orc one just looks really very basic (especially compared to the equivalent Empire set):
It seems as if they've concentrated on giving the models the biggest weapones/banners they can put onto the model without physically unbalancing the model and then removed about half of the detail off the model.

Normal Goblins have got stuff like fur-lined coats, etc.
The Forest Gobbo's are more tribal, but iI think it's a shame that there aren't more FG units (even just keeping some of the infantry models would have been might have been nice).
The Night Goblins get more stuff to do with Mushrooms, but I think that there are a few which stand out for all of the wrong reasons:

One NG shaman is a bit odd-looking as he seems to have a monocle(?) and a little snotling(?) crawling over his hood...? What is all that about?

The other model is the now-infamous "Squig-Lover" Night Goblin Warboss from the WFB boxed set:
Without going into too much detail, it's a goblin in robes standing behind a Squig...the Squig looks like it's straining a bit (as one of it eyes seems to be poppping out), and the NG is stood behind it and yanking on a chain around the squig's neck.
However, the squig has a very curious look on it's face and the goblin's robes are actually lifted up at the front, so this gives the model a very different look (instead of the vicious look I think that GW were going for).

[IBBoard]

6th Edition added the slightly nastier goblins - I've got a couple of boxes that I converted to Grots. 7th Edition has added the Night Goblins with more furry bits.

I guess Games Workshop's idea with the Forest Goblins is to make them a bit more distinct - almost like a separate sub-species of Goblinoid that has evolved away for a while, rather than just Goblins in the forest. I still think their faces look a little odd, though, especially the banner bearer in the Spider Riders unit.

On the plus side with the new design, the special characters look better. Looking at GW's list of Ork and Goblin special characters (the latter ones of which error when you go to their page) Morglum Necksnapper does look a little dated and under-sized now.

Final point of the post - the Night Goblin Shaman. Checking him out on the shamans page I can see what you mean. I think the monocle thing looks it's possibly suppose to be a Bad Moon's moon, but it still looks odd, and whoever decided the snotling should go on his head had obviously been experimenting with some 'special' mushrooms as well!

[Cheezo]

A minor irritating thing about the comparison in stats between Orcs and Humans is that in the background sections, GW always describe them as, like, "having the brute strength to rip a man limb from limb"... but humans and Orc stats were almost identical. Bluh.

[IBBoard]

A few less smilies in future, please

I guess it does make sense that Orcs are stronger now, but GW don't always follow the fluff anyway. Space Marines are super-humans capable of taking out huge swathes of the enemy single-handedly, but put a squad of Marines against a mob of Orks and it'd be a close-run thing.

Even the Orcs' current strength probably isn't enough to rip a human apart, but if they did make them that strong then they'd need to up their points as well to even the battle out, at which point you wouldn't get the mob effect