Which races are considered chaotic?

[IBBoard]

That was the way I saw it - I tried to distinguish between Chaotic (worships Chaos) and chaotic (english adjective describing a lack of cohesion and order).

Some of the Dark Eldar might be pirates, but I thought that they were still (to some degree) Chaos worshippers. The whole reason that I know for Dark Eldar leaving the Craftworlds was that they were kicked out after The Fall for not changing their ways enough.

[Simguinus]

but with Exterminatus looming over the heads of the poor people of the Imperium,

Except that Exterminatus isn't a threat that hangs over the heads of the people of the Imperium. The average citizen has no knowledge of Exterminatus, and wouldn't understand the word if it was used as a threat. And it would be a poor Inquisitor who blustered about the Imperium's ultimate sanction. Even in the vast Imperium of Man, Exterminatus is not to be used lightly. Unless GW have significantly changed the fluff recently, only an Inquisitor can order Exterminatus, so it isn't an option for Space Marines (at any level of OOB).

Chaos is inherent in humanity - since Chaos represents (or represented) change and destruction. Which is why so many humans fall, whereas Orks are a force of chaos, and whilst their actions are certainly Chaotic on occasion, the Orky psyche is more self-sufficient than the Human and you don't see as many Ork cultists - except for the Stormboyz of Khorne, and Weirdboy Warpheadz. Ork society tends to ostracise Chaos worshippers as un-Orky.
It's debatable whether Kaela Mensha Khaine is Khorne. I say not, Khaine is only an aspect of Khorne in the Warhammer World, as Lord of Murder. I don't think the Eldar worship Khorne in any sense. Although I'd have to trawl through the Eldar fluff some to work out their relationship with Slaanesh again, beyond, they created it somehow and they are mortal enemies, and Slaanesh is the whole reason for soul-stones.
Dark Eldar are definitely Chaotic.
Space Marines are obviously vulnerable to the taint of Chaos - cf the Horus Heresy and the Fallen. Many might also argue that Sanguinus and the Blood Angels are tainted by Chaos. Sanguinus was a mutant, and the Red Thirst is possibly a mutation.
Necrons. Pfah.

[moregil]

Okay had a careful look and a think and come up with this

the poll asks what race is chaotic -

Well Space Marines are not a race - they are by definition an enhanced human and are not a subclass either as they don't reproduce.

Chaos Space marines are per Space Marines - they may be corrupted versions but again they are not a race as such

Tyranids - Yep a race as its base stock reproduces - chaotic yes as it has the possiblility of being continually mutable.

Tau - A race yes chaotice hmmm from what I have seen and read not really

Elder - Race yes chaotic yes

Dark Eldar - Race No they are of the same species as Eldar - they may have their own social structure etc. But they are not a distinct species from Eldar so no not a race.

Orks - Well from what I heard Orks were a fungi infestation a race hmmmmm debatable chaotic yes.

Necrons - Race yes chaotic no

Imperial Guard - Race well as a whole they represent Homo Sapien - chaotic yes. Again it is in the nature of the creature not what the scociety represents.

So conclusion - some of the poll shouldn't be there as per say......and many races are chaotic.

[IBBoard]

I think this one all depends on your interpretation of "race" and "chaotic".

Race as a bilogical term would discount Space Marines, but race as a GW term for an army that you can pick from ("what race do you play?" doesn't tend to get the answer "human" for Guard and SM ) would be different. Same with 'chaotic' - is it Chaotic (as in follower of Chaos) or chaotic (as in lacking order)? Rannos never clarified what he meant.

[moregil]

I agree with you in terminology. I tend to distinguish between the two Race and Army - when asked what race? I play I answer Elves - What Army? High Elves.

As to being Chaotic - well is that by definition or by nature. As all races have a touch of disorder in them so this would make all races chaotic. Think a clearer definition for the poll would be better...

[IBBoard]

I guess Elves works when asked race, and things like Lizardmen certainly works, but what about if you had an Ogre Kingdoms army? Would you say "Ogres and Gnoblars", since Gnoblars tend to make up a chunk reasonably equivalent to the Gobbos in Orcs and Gobbos?

[moregil]

No would say Ogres - as gnoblers are by definition a slave species to Ogres, they don't have a choice on what their status is, goblins on the other hand have their own defined society - hmmmm perhaps when asked race one could say either Orc, Goblinoid or Greenskins then army Orc & Goblin or specific.

Races in WH are more defined -

Lizardmen
Elves inc DE, HE and We
Humans
Dwarves inc Chaos Dwarves
Skaven
Greenskins
Ogres
Beastmen

With the following I consider to be just armies

Undead
Chaos (not Beastmen)

Reason being most of the first have a well defined 'society' base of one form or another

The latter being more army descriptive and no social background as such.

[Simguinus]

Arguably, the Tomb Kings and the Vampire Counts both have well defined societies - albeit deriving from baseline human.

[moregil]

hmmmmm good point, but these undead societies are stagnant especially tomb kings. So are they a race, Well tomb kings don't create 'new' tomb kings - so I guess not, Vampire counts hmmmmmm since there are loads of urban myth about these creates and new 'myths' being created all the time - well it is hard to say if they are to be considered as seperate race or not from human base line.

[Simguinus]

Stagnation doesn't in and of itself disqualify something from being a 'race' - look at modern man

But, the Undead are more of a sub-species (homo haemovora ) than a true race. Nonetheless, the necromancy which created them ultimately derives from Nagash's experiments with Warpstone, so tey're definitely Chaotic.

[IBBoard]

They may be chaotic, but they're not 40K

I'd be interested to know who voted Marines and Guard.