Orks Or Tyrinids

[Simguinus]

We're coming back to Ooge Choppas again here....
Sorry to keep bringing them up, but they're a pet hate, and they epitomise things about the Orks that just get my feckles up....

I don't mean by Orkyness that everything an Ork does should be on the whim of at least 4 different die types. I like that they've removed many of the random tables. I don't think Orky character has been lost, just debased. In earlier Ork supplements there was more 'fluff' and less gangsta spelling; it was pretty much limited to replacing 'c' with 'k' and pluralisin' with 'z' - oh, and missin' out extraneous 'g's. It was more, subtle, for want of a better term....sometimes now the Orks just seem very juvenile, and far from maturing seem to have gone in quite the oppostie direction; like GW are kiddifying them. Or *shudder* turning them into the Chavs of the 40K universe.

And 2nd Ed to 3rd Ed transition period was godwaful for bringing out army books and presenting the army-to-end-all-armies-at-least-until-we-publish-the-next-supplement....I'll have to glance over the Ork Codex when it comes out, just to see what its like.

[Space marine]

Are you obsessed with uge choppaz? Or do you mean to say that they are the tools the orks use to beat nids?

[IBBoard]

I think Simguinus has bad experiences with them Personally, I'd never use them. For the penalty you get, they don't seem to be worth the points. I'd rather stick with a Choppa or go whole-hog on a Claw. Not sure how much use a Claw would be against Nids, though :\

[Simguinus]

In the olden days you'd have got huge chopperz. Now you get uge choppaz. It's the choppaz bit that really annoys me. Like l33t sp34k does. That and "we can carve through tactical dreadnought armour with an over-sized meat cleaver". It just struck me as annoying and purposeless, and not actually particularly orky. Old-style orks would;ve developed a super-charged kan opener (drawd by the MeK's Pen Runtz); or just used the mighty Shokk Attak Gun.

No, the ridiculous huge cleavers havenothing to do with orks fighting the 'nids.

Actually, I've never faced an ork army using large meat cleavers, but the fact that they exist, and the low quality rules write-up, irks me from an aesthetic point of view. They're silly and pointless and poorly thought out and exist solely to give orks an edge over Space Marines, and that sort of thing really gets my goat - when the rules prop up / plug the inherent weaknesses of a race. It smacks of 2nd Ed's worst excesses. Most ork players with any tactical skill don't use them. They're kiddy fluff with the new-style kiddy ork spelling to go with them. Grrr.

[Space marine]

Even normal ork choppaz reduce the armour save to 4+, which is fine for a SM player with Scouts, but is stupid when eg.

Marneus Calgar : Ha ha! I have just beaten an ork warboss in close combat!

---Ork slugga boy arrives + hits with choppa---

---Dink---

Calgar: AAAAAAAGH!

---Dead---

Lucky gretchin can't have choppas, or that would be a hell uv an embarrassment.

[IBBoard]

Choppas are a good thing - other races get reasonable armour, higher AP weapons or large amounts of armoured vehicles, so Orks need something to counteract that.

I think we're getting a little off the Orks Vs Nids topic, though To try to get us back there, I'm wondering about how a mob of Orks would compare against a pack of 'normal' Nids. They'd almost certainly tear the Termagant's to shreds if I'm remembering the stats correctly, and Hormagaunt's would be a bit closer in combat, but once the Orks have either some burnas or big shootas and a few rounds of firing, I think they'd win out.

[Simguinus]

Genestealers and Warriors should be able to make mince of Orks up close. Termagants would be stuffed; IIRC they've only got 6+ save, so a fusillade of shooterz would take care of them.

other races get reasonable armour, higher AP weapons or large amounts of armoured vehicles, so Orks need something to counteract that.

Fine, so give them power weapons, not meat cleavers.

[IBBoard]

But then your average boy wouldn't be so cheap Choppas are great because they even things out against Marines while doing no use at all against Eldar and Guard. At least it's not Second edition where the Guard would lose their Flak save because the Choppa has a -2 save modifier or something.

As for the Warriors and 'Stealers - yeah, I suspect they would kill the Orks, but at three times the cost of a Shoota boy and with only two wounds, a brood of three with weapons upgrades might struggle a little with an equivilant points cost of Orks. Must say I've never played against Nids, though.

[Simguinus]

Having only played against 'nids with Marines, where I came very close to getting my ass kicked all over the table, the weight of numbers 'nids can employ with their lower-powered CC gumbies (hormagaunts) can be very telling. Maybe not so much with Orks, though. Having never really seen a good fight between the two, it's very difficult to say, but I suspect that the 'nids could probably load up on as many lil 'nids as the Orks had boyz, and still pack a couple of nasty punches with 'stealers / warriors and a lictor; or some nasty bio-morphs.

[IBBoard]

Yeah - I got my Ork army very close to the maximum number of models in an army that they had in the letters section of WD recently. That was with about 50 grots, though (and my one that just beat it was an illegal army - d'oh!). Biomorphs would make the Nids a lot tougher, but then it'd also reduce their numbers.

As for the Hormagaunts - one point more than a slugga boy, but with a point less toughness and one attack less (once you take in to account the slugga/choppa). OK, so the Nids are probably going to get the charge to even out the attacks, but that's still an equivalent number of Ork attacks flying back, plus there's the tiny chance that they actually killed something first with shooting. Like I said, I've never actually played it, but the stats say it should be quite an even fight on basic Vs basic.

[Space marine]

If you have 3 carnifexes, with 2 of them foccussed on anti-infantry bio-morphs, and one with an anti vehicle biomorphs, then givve them all
vvings, the orks are gonna be squished!
Also, If you have a broodlord + tyrant, some lictors and stealers, then the nids will easily win. Just to make sure, get some warriors with range combat upgrades, and some t-gants and there is the perfect army!

(you'd need to be rich to afford that little lot!)

[IBBoard]

Yeah, I can see that being quite nasty, which is where the three Kans, a Dreadnought, two Kannons, a Zzap gun and as many Rokkits as you can manage come in to it And that's just the models I actually have.

Depending on the range of the Nid weapons, I'm sure there'd be combinations of Mek Boy shield generators (can't remember the Orky name at the moment), Mega Blastas and other items that would work well. A looted Leman Russ would go down well against Termagants, too!