Played 8th edition

[snowblizz]

Just got home from playing my first 8th edition game. Having read up with the rulebook a few days and we had it with us, so none of that "I think I read it on-line".

As an experienced (I'm gonna make that claim) player I am tentatively not blown away by all the new stuff. Some of the things I could live with but there are a couple of big changes that taken together I'm not positive I like.

Basically, sucks to play one of my favourite armies.

[IBBoard]

I've still not got round to reading the release issue of White Dwarf. Other than the change to category limits, what are the big changes?

I guess all armies might end up playing differently under the new rules, but it isn't a good situation to have your gamers thinking that it is bad because of it!

[snowblizz]

Wholesale revamp basically. In an odd "this is sort of familiar but totally different" kind of way.

Any element of measuring uncertainty is gone. You can measure everything at any point. I'm undecided on this.
But it leads to 1 big change I don't like. Charging is now a random 2d6" + M value. I noticed this a lot playing Beastmen vs Dwarfs. I can no longer move forward into charge range with impunity, as the difference in charge range between me and Dwarfs is now a paltry 2".

Directly linked is the removal of guessing for warmachines. Hitting lone monsters is pretty darn easy. Put it 7-8" in front of it and the 2 bounces are almost guaranteed to get it. Also means characters can be hit pretty niftily, well there's the look out sir roll, but it only protects characters in the same type of unit. Beastmen have varied chars that boost units but some of them are dead easy to kill, ie minotaurs that can't now get the "save" for being in a unit.

Now with 2 ranks being able to shoot and fight all the time basically things have become much more deadly. For a while in turn2 I was unsure I'd even manage to cross the board.
Combined with the casualties not reducing combat attacks my opponent basically gained almost 10 attacks where previously he'd be glad to get maybe 2-3 hits back while I gain little from my second ranks of attacks. Which for a more fragile offensive army wasn't very good.

A unit that has more ranks than its opponents will be stubborn. In principle I think this works, but I really think it should be lost if you are flanked, which is considerably more difficult to pull off. Well the removing ranks part as you need a ranked unit to do it now.

Magic of course also got pretty overhauled. Irresistable force and Miscast now come at the same time, but a lot of spells have become real nasty. So magic is a real high risk, high reward thing. I had 2 lvl2s and while we got plenty of power dice I didn't exactly dominate magically. Then again you seldom do vs Dwarfs.

Another important change is basically removing terrain as an impediment to movement. They added a huge section of wacky rules to terrain (woods attacking units, rivers of blood, magic wells blah blah blah) instead but who the heck has those 36 unique piece of terrain to place that I counted from the list? I foresee a lot of ignoring this. Especially as the pieces are often skewed towards "order" or"destruction".

There's probably more large ones, but the random chargers, no uncertain distances, and durable battle lines really changed the game for me. Well opponent too, but his Dwarfs was mostly on the benefiting end of the spectrum.

[IBBoard]

Hmmmm, some of that does sound somewhat odd. Bits to increase the number of attacks in combat were introduced in 40K 4th and worked quite well because of the skirmish style (e.g. all units within 2" get full attacks, where as they got 1 attack or full attacks if in base contact in 3rd) and they make for a punchy and bloody battle, but I'm not sure it is right for Warhammer. It also means the High Elves have lost another of their special rules.

The switch in what is random seems really odd - uncontrollable attacks like rock lobbers and cannons are now quite accurate but charging isn't? Huh? And what happened to the whole "it's beardy to measure your arm and then nonchalantly lean on the table to secretly measure distances" thing from previous editions? Being able to measure at any point seems like it'd take half of the fun and skill out of it as you just end up falling short or getting too close etc.

Hopefully you'll be able to work out something in the new rules that works to your advantage.

[snowblizz]

8th edition seems to be a strange mix of 40k, War of the Ring with some basis of fantasy.
I wrote up a battle report that I posted on the Beastman forum, the Herdstone. http://z2.invisionfree.com/herdstone/in ... opic=20411

Got nifty graphs and stuff.

The High Elfs are a bit of loss, there were alterations to the Always Strike First rule, so now you got re-rolls, except the elite infantry with greatweapons won't be able to take advantage of it. The big problem will be that they will almost always be hit back with a full complement, in fact double it in many cases, so will take lots of damage back.

But the random distances and a huge downgrade in the importance of striking first does make for a very different game. I have a load of mental baggage, I'll admit to that, maybe you would enjoy it more with less ideas of how it "should" play.

[IBBoard]

Maybe, but I did play 4th/5th all those years ago, and Warhammer just seemed right with the ranks and the charge. IIRC you gain an attack for charging in 40K, so you do get a bonus but of a different (bloodier) kind.

I can't remember off the top of my head what they do for fighting back in 40K - I think you work down the initiatives and anyone on the same initiative can fight back (even if they died) to represent a "striking at the same time" battle, but if you get killed by a higher initiative model then I didn't think you got to fight back. At least that's what I vaguely (possibly incorrectly) remember from my days playing 40K 3rd.

Maybe it's all just a way to get the modern kid interested - make it shorter, more brutal and quicker to finish with more of a unit getting wiped out each turn

[snowblizz]

Not to forget involving more buyable GW models!

You are correct with 40k. It has been "I" based since 3rd edition. It is rather ironic in so far that there's bene suggestions to making "I" more important in WHFB. But the minute they do that the model removal rules largely invalidates that change anyway.

They've definitely tried to push up infantry blocks. In part I feel they may have overdone it.

[IBBoard]

I guess it would emphasise the power of units more, but it does also stop you getting the classic fantasy scenario of the powerful hero on his mount who flies in and strikes down all before him before they can react. Now it could be the powerful hero on his mount who flies in and strikes down all before him, only they get to fight back and take out him or his mount, leaving him looking slightly less heroic.

[snowblizz]

Played a second game with more points, 2400. Felt a bit more comfortable.
Still having the same issues with 8th as in 7th vis-a-vis charging. Despite people claiming it was "like totally easier now".

http://z2.invisionfree.com/herdstone/in ... opic=20508

Thought I lost badly but the new scoring system only rewards dead units so my expensive hafl-dead units and wounded characters were worth zilch for the opponent. A slight boost for the non shooting Beastmen as you really have beat something on the head with a stick and chase it down to scor epoints.

[IBBoard]

Some interesting little snippets in there from my quick skim. Charging does seem a bit odd - the whole "closest point and wheel" makes measuring easier, but you could have some models running miles if you've got a wide frontage and a big wheel!

I'm sure the new victory points will take a bit of getting used to for some older gamers. I can see the point of it in some ways because it does stop people picking up points without finishing the job, but it does also make it a lot more difficult to get points.

[snowblizz]

Some interesting little snippets in there from my quick skim. Charging does seem a bit odd - the whole "closest point and wheel" makes measuring easier, but you could have some models running miles if you've got a wide frontage and a big wheel!

I'm sure the new victory points will take a bit of getting used to for some older gamers. I can see the point of it in some ways because it does stop people picking up points without finishing the job, but it does also make it a lot more difficult to get points.

Having bashed it around a bit gathering thoughts from other players it seems it was as easy as I thought, measure closest model and then move in. We just didn't think so late in the evening when playing.