who were the old ones?

[IBBoard]

The early ones possibly were, the later ones are looking more unique - but whats that got to do with the Old Ones?!?

[IBBoard]

Just read a section from an old WD thats interesting.
Issue 93 - September 1987 - Warhammer 40,000 1st Edition is just being released, and they've got an intro/background article (pg 33 for anyone who can manage to get their hands on an issue thats nearly 16 years old ) Its a direct quote of one paragraph, no changes at all, grammar (or lack of), the lot

If your preferences are for large powerful creaters the warriors of the hive-fleets should meet your requirements, strange six-limbed monstrosities capable of bending biological matter to their will. Warhammer die hards will recognise the Slann and learn more of this once great raceand its pivotal role in the history of the galaxy. More exotic aliens afford players the opportunity to use special powers, such as the weird Enslavers who have the ability to take over the minds of enemy troops, Crawlers which burrow beneath the ground surface, and the fearsome Catachan Devil... which just bites yer face clean off.

On a side note, else where in the article, they also mention "Space Elves", and the have a picture labeled as an Inquisitor, but he looks like a chainsword wielding bounty hunter...boy am I glad they improved things since 1st edition

[Lazzer]

Each Lizardman god has a different mifestation don't they? (Similar to the Egyptians) This means that they could have been shape shifters, who appeared in a pleasing/scary form for their believers/enemies.

It was the Chaos who were the old ones. :angry:

[IBBoard]

Each Lizardman god has a different mifestation don't they?  (Similar to the Egyptians)  This means that they could have been shape shifters, who appeared in a pleasing/scary form for their believers/enemies.

It was the Chaos who were the old ones. :angry:

At which point, why are the Lizardmen classed as neutral/good? Surely if the old ones where the Chaos gods, their followers/servants would also be evil?



<!--EDIT|IBBoard|Apr 14 2005, 06:30 PM-->

[Logan_Grimnar]

The lizardmen have no recollection of the Old Ones, and whether the lizardmen were created by the chaos gods or not, the lizardmen are neutral because they do not not take any sides, they simply defend their cities from invaders.
The only times that the lizardmen venture out of Lustria (or Zlatlan, in the South Lands) is to fulfill the prophecies. The slann know that these prophecies must be fulfilled, but know not why. The lizardmen will attack both good and evil forces in order to fulfill the prophecies, and this is why the lizardmen are a neutral force.
The lizardmen could be classed as good on occasions, as from the stories of Marco Colombo and Ibn Jellaba (see the Lizardmen armies book), where the lizardmen co-operated with the adventurers.

[IBBoard]

I don't know much about the Lizardmen, but I thought the Slaan knew something - if only in the "minor background of a worshipped god" style.
And from some of the background that I've read, I got the impression that the Old Ones were different to the Chaos Gods. Wasn't it the departure of the old ones that in some way caused the rupture in the Chaos Wastes? I remember something like that and it seems to indicate that they are different to me. Unless the old ones are just chaos gods beyond the four known powers, which is always possible I suppose.

[Logan_Grimnar]

The Old Ones came to the warhammer world through an inter-dimensional gateway which they created above the north pole. For some unknown reason this collapsed, leaving a hole into another dimension.

Daemons rushed through this hole, and this is how the realms of chaos came about. Nobody actually knows what happened to the Old Ones, whether they were destroyed by the demons, or what

[moregil]

Does this then place the Old Ones as an advance species of unknown origin with technologies rivaling or beyond those in 40K, as they are able to genetically manipualte a species to create slave races which by the way there were two, the Slann (Favoured) and the Elves (Slaves) -

From what I gather the Warp gate failed and collapsed opening the way to the realm of daemons.........and chaos ensued. I think it says that the Old Ones tried to close the gate but failed as Chaos had already escaped.

SO I don't think they were dieties of any kind. Nor were they Eldar (though there are similar rift technology possessed by them). I think they may well have been a race unknown - before 40K races (even the Necrons).

WH world could well have been an experiment for them - testing out DNA stocks before sowing them....well look at the Tau, I see them as cold blooded and almost lizard like.

So who were the old ones - well only the GWS inner circle can really answer that. But the debate is interesting

[IBBoard]

Interesting, and also slightly confused by GW's changes between the Warhammer versions. The WH world is no longer in the 40K universe (or at least isn't mentioned any more) so Eldar are unlikely in the later backgrounds.

They were certainly advanced, although anyone with technology and knowledge would be considered advanced from a primitive standpoint.

I think "unknown species" and "advanced technology/knowledge" might be about as much as GW wish to release - unless they do something similar to the Horus Heresy novels and release some 'early history of the WH world' novels

[moregil]

Bet even then they would just define them as 'Old Ones' or 'Great Ones' hehehehe - keeping the mystery open...sigh