who were the old ones?

[Asdrubael Vect]

they are worshiped as Gods but they weren't just very powerful beings, it says in the lizardman army book that technology and magic were as one to them, sounds like the Eldar doesn't it?

I dunno about that, one idea someone I know was that Eldar are the descendants of the elves, I know it doesnt sound right at first but, they have the same/similar characteristics, the elves allways seem to advance quicker than most races (quite a lot ogf fan written stuff on this i think but its been about 4 years since i last did anything like Warhammer loL!), so they could have found a way off the Old World and left it completely, as they evolved developed Craft Worlds etc, the other races eventaully either died off or left earth, eventuall the Empire and everything is built, then you get to "Modern" 40K

[Warmaster Horus]

they are worshiped as Gods but they weren't just very powerful beings, it says in the lizardman army book that technology and magic were as one to them, sounds like the Eldar doesn't it?

I dunno about that, one idea someone I know was that Eldar are the descendants of the elves, I know it doesnt sound right at first but, they have the same/similar characteristics, the elves allways seem to advance quicker than most races (quite a lot ogf fan written stuff on this i think but its been about 4 years since i last did anything like Warhammer loL!), so they could have found a way off the Old World and left it completely, as they evolved developed Craft Worlds etc, the other races eventaully either died off or left earth, eventuall the Empire and everything is built, then you get to "Modern" 40K

The tech/magic thing is like the Eldar of 40k.

With the idea of 40k racesa comin from WHFB, its a nice idea, but it doesnt really fit. I know that they have orc(k)s, eldar/elves, marines/humans/empire etc, but 40k and WHFB are different universes. Orks in 40k are spreading from the fringes of the galaxy, but in WHFB they are on the same planet as humans and elves.

40k is the real universe in the futre, WHFB is a fantasy world.

On the old ones, they were probably shape changers, like manifestations of the Chaos powers are able to appear in different guises

[IBBoard]

Knowing GW they could look like anything. I saw a really old model the other day (I have White Dwarves back to the 80s) and they had a Slann in there that looked like a frog. Not one of the overgrown fat things in a chair, but a small, normal, hitching a lift by holding on tight to a dragons long horns common-a-garden frog.

[Dan the Mingmaker]

I know what the old ones are!!!!! they are...... [cue drumrolls] OLD
ok the old ones are the ones who created the warhammer world BUT something went wrong and the old ones left in a hurry before the polar gates collapsed (polar bears?)
and chaos let themselves in (yay ) and the chaos wastes were made (double yay )

(Go Nurgle)

[IBBoard]

I know what the old ones are!!!!! they are...... [cue drumrolls] OLD
ok the old ones are the ones who created the warhammer world BUT something went wrong and the old ones left in a hurry before the polar gates collapsed (polar bears?)
and chaos let themselves in (yay ) and the chaos wastes were made (double yay )

(Go Nurgle)

Yes, but who were they? Are they gods? aliens? frogs? time travellers?
And did they create the Warhammer world? or did they just hijack it and set up their portal on the pole?

[Mirridi]

The old ones, as they feature in both FB and 40K. I believe are meant to be one and the same race. The FB world was just one of their more 'strange' experiments. After reading way too much documentation I have discerned the following:
1. The old ones are aeons old. (NAH!)
2. They made the webway.
3. They created man, the eldar, the krork and numerus other races.
4. Orks are gentic corruptions of the Krork, who are known as the 'defenders'. (Someone conjecture and help me out)
5. They had the absolute power of creation (i.e. matter.
6. They also have very strange links with the Chaos Gods.
+++
Either ask me to continue, change the subject or force me to shut up.

[Warmaster Horus]

oo, who are the krork? sounds interesting, is it one of the old stories?

[Mirridi]

The Krork: A huge race created by the old ones to be 'defenders'. Of what, Games-Workshop won't tell us.
The Orks have devolved from the Krork. There are hints in the Ork Codex.

The orks have no fear of Death, since they never fought the Nightbringer.
I'll go into that if you so desire.

[Bap]

Skaven Skaven!!

[IBBoard]

no, rats are just a natural pest
But the Krork sound like many other parts of the GW background - they are left there as something to possibly use in future, or as a plot line for people to follow and imagine on their own
But if you have any more stuff, please continue I like all the 'fluff' - I just don't have a clue where people find it all from! And I've got the 3rd edition Ork codex, but I don't remember anything about the Krork, I'll have to check and read it
But trust me, fighting the Nightbringer is a nasty thing damned Necron demi-gods!!

[Mirridi]

It's not in the Ork Codex, and to let you know, I'm a fluff writer by trade.

Believe me. C'tan are not demi-gods. Fear them more than any Emporer.

Way back in history, when all the C'tan were rampaging the galaxy, the Deciever convinced the Nightbringer to start attacking other C'tan. Which it did, until there were four left.
The Deciever and the Nightbringer. (we all know and love)
The outsider. (A footnote in Codex: Necrons.
Dragon. (Not much beside a strange reference in a vox transcript. Dragon is the machine god, ands is currently sleeping on Mars.

The nightbringer touched all of the young species. (The ones created by the Old ones.) He faded into Eldar myth, and became the Reaper to man. But as the krork degenerated, the idea of the nightbringer was lost, so they have no fear of death. From extensive studies with a mate, we believe we've got a theory on what the Krork were created for.

(Now it gets theoretical.)
Sensing their immenent defeat, the Old ones did some gene splicing, and secreted their DNA and some other bits into a 'survivor race' That could help defend their gene pool. The necron tide wiped out the Old ones, and without a purpose, Krork spores were spread throughout the galaxy. Over a period of several million years, the unstable algal sub-string of DNA degraded, as did Ork society. Now they are just the green tide.

Notes:
Green tide vs. Necron silver tide?
There's enough of them to protect a galaxy-wide civilisation, isn't there...
Again, quoting from ye Necron codex, 'The Necrons hold millenia-long grudges against some backward species.' It also suggests that you use a Lizardman army to represent these.
Lizardmen: failed Krork?

[IBBoard]

Cool, a resident professional fluff writer
Could the use of a lizardmen army not just be a pre-Kroot Codex idea? or do the Kroot have some background making it impossible for them to be the "backward species" mentioned?
Also, didn't this start out as a Warhammer debate?
But with the other C'tan, I've never heard of them, although they do make sense. Would be great to get an Inquisition point of view on the idea of the Machine God being an alien
But with the Krork degrading to the Orks, that would possibly partially explain why they are born with skills. If they were created as a great defender race by some amazing DNA specialists, then it would make sense to give them inbuilt skills

Really must read more fluff beyond the Genevieve novels

[Mirridi]

If you step back and look at the Kroot, they could have the same gene pool as Lizardmen....

The Kroot were originally intended to be Lizards (I think), but their DNA changing ability could have specialised them down to the level of Lizardmen, from an era when they didn't have guns.

How much do you know about Kroot? Do you think I should start a thread about them, and 'nids?

They be damn interesting.

[IBBoard]

I don't know all that much - just what I've read in White Dwarf but it would be interesting to learn

[Warmaster Horus]

i think nids were created when films like alien and the first copy of starship troopers were drifting round the GW design team