Who has the best chances to win??

[andygorn]

The Imperium will live forever...by it's very nature, Chaos is just too fractured and insecure to last for long.
The Emperor existed way before Chaos Gods and He will be there long after they have dissipated.

[IBBoard]

But what about the paranoia? When an Inquisitor is willing to destroy entire hives for the sake of a small contamination (can't think of a better word) then you've already got nut-cases willing to take out your own populace without much help from the enemy. Add in some gentle whisperings that the Imperium is planning to do it to a large number of worlds because of some minor offence and you've got a good basis for a revolt.

Actually, maybe that's all Chaos' tactics are anyway But fractured and insecure seems to be lasting quite well considering how down-trodden civilians are quite fractured and insecure by nature anyway.

[they_shall_know_no_fear22]

once there was a time when the emporer walked among the people in the game now there is only two years to the emperors rebirth either through a mortal champion or as the star child either way he becomes more powerful and will eventually smite those in league with the chaos traitors and scum

[IBBoard]

Two years? Is that some old prophecy or is it a new bit of fluff GW have added recently? Because as far as I've ever worked out there isn't a definitive year that's 'now' for the 40K universe. Depending on who they're talking about then most of the special characters don't co-exist and so there isn't a consistent 'now'.

[DieterHellsghewer]

Eventually the imperium will abandon its outer worls so chaos will win there yes but the inner worlds will be bolstered and with the imperium no longer stretching its troops as much they may be able to fend off the tyranid swarms. Also the Space marine chapters without having to scour the galaxy would be able to rebuild.That and there would be a higher copncentration of armor on planets. OOOH SHINY TANKS AND TITANS.

[Ravage777]

I really cant see the point in this discussion.
Everybody is basing thier "theorys" on supposition.
The cold hard facts are Space marines tear through any chaos like butter except chaos marines who are immortal until killed.
There are a set amount and once gone are gone forever.
Its only that they were once space marines and have achieved the immortality and the experience of age coupled with space marine training that makes them so deadly.
Space marines still kill them occasionally.
Space marines are contantly reproducing and chaos can only successfully defend with chaos marines whoes numbers are finite and continually dwindling.
Add to this chaos is constantly using sacrifice further weakening them and changing to mutants naking them dumber and often less physicly capable with always little to no military training and you see chaos is more of an annoyance.
Now the Tau with thier more benevolent ways pose a threat and maybe the eldar if they ever fought instead of running away saying thier great because theyre invisible,but still running nonetheless.
But chaos,no.....
Even if the emporor and earth was wiped the space marines are self sufficient in all ways and excepting the emperors good luck bestowements would continue,unabated to exterminate the encroaching aliens,the malalighned heretics,and the deformed dangerously reproductive mutants.
Maybe a few more casualties from no emperors luck but space marines are 90% what they are and 10% emporer assisted.
I Dont think the chapters would tolerate the inquisitors deceptions for to long without the golden throne around either therefore solving the lack of benevolence problem as well.
The emperor gone would be of little significance to continued space marine supremecy as the galaxys ultimate warriors indeed......

Sincerely
Ravage777

[IBBoard]

But Chaos has daemons, and lots of them. If the Space Marines are fighting closer to the Eye of Terror then the Chaos Marines will have an easier job of summoning daemons. Yes, they have the Grey Knights, but are there really enough of them to defeat the hordes that live in the Eye of Terror and the Immaterium? Ian Watson's Draco trilogy are a good start point to show what daemon worlds can be like and the threat they can pose.

The effects of mutation depend on the individual and the god. Some mutation can help if the individual is a valued follower, others can be low-level mutations caused by general corruption. Tzeentchian mutations may go too far and corrupt completely, but as the god of knowledge and change then he isn't going to mutate all of his minions to stupidity. Also, there's mutation and then there's daemon possession. You may lose some tactics, but then some daemons can be even more sneaky and devious than normal people and they'll have had millennia of practice at it!

If the Emperor disappeared then the Astronomincan would fail. If it failed then navigation through the Immaterium would be hugely more dangerous as Navigators would have nothing to follow. Also, some Inquisitors (and probably others) use the Emperor's Tarot in much the same way as people on Earth use standard Tarot cards. Without the Emperor's power the Tarot cards wouldn't work and so many Inquisitors wouldn't be able to see the future and gets his divine guidance.

Somehow, I doubt the Space Marines would have it quite so easy as you think, especially if they lost the Imperial Guard as their cannon fodder

[Ravage777]

They wouldnt lose the imperial guard because the benevolence factor would only increase recruitment not decrease it.
I didnt know the emperor was behind those 2 tools but still they are things that make it easier not neccessarily cause things to be harder if their not there.Without sacrificing to the emperor daily(which i find ludicrous and heretical in of itself)the inquisition would pull that holier than thou stuff with space marines all of once then there would be no more inquisition.Therefore usage of those tools by the inquistion isnt really important.Now i go by the books not the rts or tabletop gameplay.
In the books Space marines tear through chaos demons and heretics with ease.Kinda like walking the dog.Only in the game do they get dropped by demons and other low awsomeness stuff.
Things would become harder in ways with no futuresight and no instant travel but there would still be no chance of space marines becoming overwhelmed unless chaos marines massed.
They could just cordon of the area around the eye of terror and make it a no travel area.
Its a big Universe to worry about 1 trivial little eye,there isnt even 2 of them for crying out loud!
The demons are half blind!

Sincerely
Ravage777

[stfas]

demons aren't half-blind, and also chaos marines should be just as good as space marines (as they are space marines who went over to the chaos god's side

[Ravage777]

I was joking about the blind demons.
The chaos marines arent only just as good as space marines but are the most feared opponet of a space marine.
For good reason,chaos marines are everything a space marine is plus they are about 9500 years older than the average space marine plus they have all that sorcery from being a champion of chaos.
The only reason they arent the ultimate warriors of the galaxy instead of space marines is because they arent warriors,theyre undead.
Unless a chaos marine is killed by somebody or something they are immortal.

Sincerely
Ravage777

[stfas]

space marines are the same really, they won't die by age as far as we know.... and chaos marines aren't undead, there mutated

[IBBoard]

Well, Thousand Sons are basically undead since they're spirits bound in armour, but that's a special case Most Chaos Marines aren't sorcerers, although they may have some marks or favours of gods, most are just highly experienced Marines and warriors with a taint. That means that one-for-one they should be marginally better than loyal Marines, and that's before you even get to the champions with the real power of the gods behind them.

As for the Guard, the worship the Emperor. If the Emperor is gone then there could easily be a huge loss of morale, which is rather unfortunate when you're relying on morale to keep your cannon fodder being cannon fodder!

From what I've picked up of warp travel/the Astronomican, it wouldn't just be difficult to travel without it but nigh-on impossible. The distances are too huge to cover by conventional methods, and without the Astronomican then there is no judge of how long you have been in the Warp. Because of the shifting time you could be in there for a year and travel 10 light years, emerge, check your location/let the Navigator rest, go back in for half an hour and be another 10 light years on. If you didn't have a marker to judge distance by then travel would be nearly impossible to do right and you'd approach a similar situation to the Dark Age of Humanity.

In the more recent books then Marines may tear through daemons, but a Marine is only a genetically engineered human. A daemon, on the other hand, is a living entity made of the matter of the Warp. Most Marines wouldn't have the weaponry to kill it, only banish it temporarily, as the weaponry is generally limited. Also, I think the earlier stories of the Horus Heresy didn't have quite such weak daemons, but then again GW weren't trying to flog masses of books back then.

[bluelizard1976]

I would personally be more afraid of the Necrons they are all but the same stat line as Marines and, they don't stay dead!! They have, point for for point, the most powerful vehicle in the game-The Monolith- and if the hints in the background story are to be believed then all the Tech-Priests on mars are unaware that their Machine Spirit is really a sleeping Necron god!!!!

[IBBoard]

Yeah, the Necrons are a tough new threat, but what are their numbers like? I've always had the impression that they're one of these "small but deadly" races.

Having said that, if the Machine Spirit is a Necron god then it's somewhat dangerously close to the centre of the Imperium, the Emperor and the heart of everything!

[stfas]

the necron god must really like the imperium then