Who has the best chances to win??

[IBBoard]

They used to, but that was Rogue Trader where everyone had everything (and, strangely, Las weapons, including Lascannons, were classed as weak because they were only light-based and could easily be deflected and defracted etc.

Back to the debate, Chaos would always win. It is like cheating and lying with politicians, and tax increases - no matter how much you work at them, they just won't go away and the evil remains.

[Dan the Mingmaker]

Chaos Shall Prevail as:
1. chaos can get new troops real easy (oh dear, there goes a cultist, I may as well
summon a great unclean one or two? or 20........)
2. chaos lie like polliticians (pst il make a deal you worship my gods and i wont kill you so what do you say (seconds later gullible guardsman is so much nurgling food)
3. they rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[IBBoard]

Chaos Shall Prevail as:
1. chaos can get new troops real easy (oh dear, there goes a cultist, I may as well
summon a great unclean one or two? or 20........)
2. chaos lie like polliticians (pst il make a deal you worship my gods and i wont kill you so what do you say (seconds later gullible guardsman is so much nurgling food)
3. they rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Politicians? lie? *sarcasm* never!!!!

Anyway, the Imperium can prevail because The Emperor percieves all and knows the warp. With his Tarot cards, an Inquisitor can be aided by his holyness in routing out and purging the unclean. If all else fails, the lives of the many are worth more than the lives of the few, and Exterminatus will kill all. So no matter how many Chaos sway, they can be killed in but one fell swoop from the majestic imperial eagle.

[Warmaster Horus]

remember the Eye of Terror is not really part of warp space it is an overlap of warp and the material universe so the Hive mind could probably control the 'nids inside of it. it has been able to control the 'nids from millions maybe billions of light years away.

it could be like communications, the astropaths get blocked by the eye of terror, its like a fuzzy cloud, so the hive mind might be weakened by the warp rift

[IBBoard]

remember the Eye of Terror is not really part of warp space it is an overlap of warp and the material universe so the Hive mind could probably control the 'nids inside of it. it has been able to control the 'nids from millions maybe billions of light years away.

it could be like communications, the astropaths get blocked by the eye of terror, its like a fuzzy cloud, so the hive mind might be weakened by the warp rift

Yeah, t'would make sense I suppose.
But does the Eye of Terror block astropaths? I know warp storms do, but does the eye of terror? because I've been reading the old inquisition novel and it seemed to point to some wierdness with the eye of terror and astropaths, but I don't remember it saying the Astronomican was blocked.

[SisterHelios]

Yes the Astronomicon is blocked by the Eye Of terror by that depends on how deep you go plus eveyurthing is practrically backwards for ships going through it,thanks to the book Eye of Terror,you'd leanr a lot from it,and i thin k the Imperium will win not an easy win but they will survive,and there are many times the Imperium has had forced alliences,DoW is a great example near the end,and the Syths of the Emperor have an Allience with the Tau Empire close to the eastern frindge during a campain that went on..though not sure if the place is truely right though

[omegoku]

as long as the imperium exists so will chaos.. so once the nids eat all the creatures who have souls, daemons will go hungry and die and chaos will falter too..

[IBBoard]

that's one interpretation I suppose although the older (mainly 2nd Edition) 40K rules did have Chaos Orks and Chaos Nids and all sorts! Not sure how much of that still holds any more in the way of fluff.

[SisterHelios]

Well I think it can,it would be fun if GW brought that back into play,or just mes around and combind the Codex's. and thats true,Chaos will exsist no matter what,Light V Dark one cannot be without the other

[IBBoard]

Yeah, without the dark there is nothing to compare the light against to show that it is light. You'd end up with a dull mid-grey And I just remembered that of course GW still have Chaos worshipping Orks - they brought it back as an excuse for the Ordo Hereticus (Witch Hunter) Inquisition to fight the Orks and other races.

[SisterHelios]

Really,I must have missed that,I'll look that over later tonight,thanks for pointing it out

[IBBoard]

They've had one battle report (or possibly a White Dwarf article) with Adrian Wood's Orks, one of whom had a tentacle arm, but the rules themselves for Chaos Taint in an army are in Codex:Witch Hunders

[moregil]

Hmmm who would win out eventually Khaos or Imperium - Sorry to say guys and gals - Imperium

Khaos has on factor against it, it is not organised enough for all four powers to work together long enough for them to defeat the Imperium. Eventually the Imperium will adapt and will defeat Khaos by shutting down 'access points' into the 'verse. Biggest access point being the Eye of Terror. Once this done, then the warp entities have to rely on random events to gain entry. Also one wonders this So far there are 4 so called Khaos Lords - yet me see 8 points to the symbol. So under any 'natural' law where one begins to fail another rises - so who is not saying there other Lords on the side line waiting for a weakness to tear apart the big 4.

Imperium has organisation on a grand scale - but it needs to advance in its preconceptions. Thus the death of the Emperor has to occur for the Imperium to survive.

I could add more but well it is a debate after all, so role on....

[IBBoard]

1) How can you close the eye of terror? It's more a celestial phenomenon than a tear (although it's a tear in the warp space boundary, but nothing hints that they're sealable).

2) I vaguely remember mention of the Emperor needing to die, but how would it directly help them fight Chaos? The Emperor is holding back Chaos himself, guiding the Emperor's Tarot cards and projecting the Astronomican. Without most of that the Imperium would be weakened, fragmented and open to attack. Being human, they'd eventually work around it and adapt, but would they be able to do that before Chaos had picked them off piecemeal?

Also, don't forget that warlords like Abaddon can lead armies of mixed Chaos worshippers, so although they won't work together completely, they will on occasion. And it's slightly older, but it only used to be that Tzeentch hated Khorne (and visa versa) as magic versus might, and Nurgle hated Slaanesh (and visa versa) as beauty versus disease.

[moregil]

Like all tears in reality then can be sealed, no matter how big they are. Just means that more 'effort' is needed.

Problem is the Emperor is holding back the Imperium as his own life force requires pyskers to maintain it, and apparently it is on a vast scale. Now without these pskyers the Imperium is fighting a holding battle which sways to and fro. I think that if the Emperor dies the pyschic energy release influenced by the 'hatred' of the Emperor for Chaos will create a backlash on such a scale that it will fracture the Eye of Terror and instead of one huge rift. there will become thousands of tiny rifts instead. These rifts are more manageable over a longer period of time and thus are easier to close. This turns the campaign of survival into a massive hunt and kill scenerio for the Imperium and other Races, while Chaos is reduced in status, but still very deadly enemy. Instead of invading Hordes from a random rift, you will have warlords trying to dominate worlds and attain greater status to establish rifts etc......

Great Warlords such a Abaddon would still be a threat, as they seek to establisha 'premenant' rift again - perhaps on worlds etc, which then makes far more sense as these warlords take over planets and try to establish permenant links to the warp, being hunted out by Imperial forces etc.

There of course would be a fracture in the imperium as the Emperor dies, but there would be a strong core left which will begin to unite the Imperium once more, away from the superstious nature it has at present (EG The Clergy etc), and improve on technologies.

End result 40K changes, but still has its core values..........